As scared as I was of impending nuclear doom, there were others, adults, who were more frightened. And obsessed. And crazed.

One fellow at our church, a Viet Nam veteran (a military man in a Mennonite church? it's almost too much to wrap my brain around...), who had elaborate plans to build a bunker near (or under?) his family's trailer house. To me — and I didn't know him well, though I had a crush on his daughter — it seemed this was all the guy could think about. (Maybe Jeff remembers more about this guy.)

I was never that bad.

Wow, what a difference between your thoughts and mine. I did not want to live through the impending nuclear war as a child. Although, I do remember having that fear. I was not so afraid of the communist taking over, but maybe that is because I am a socialist at heart.
If fact I took great comfort in knowing that my homes were always close enough to a nuclear impact site that I would not have to live through the slow death of radiation poisoning or the difficulty of trying to rebuild. Really, I though about this. When I was in 4th grade we moved to Vandenberg AFB in southern CA, this base houses most of the missile silos on the west coast. If there were ever an attack, VAFB would get hit, no doubt. Take out the enemies’ defenses.
Then in the 6th grade we move to Honolulu. Although there were no silos, there was always a Navy ship in harbor with the capability to launch nuclear weapons. There was a risk in HI, that the enemy would not bomb, but invade to use the islands as a staging area. But my logic was that an enemy willing to use nuclear weapons would not be thinking of land for staging areas that could be used in the near future.
Then in 9th grade we moved back to southern CA, but inland. The AFB where we lived had little or on use in a nuclear attack and would most likely not be hit. This worried me. For the first time I had to contemplate living through a nuclear attack. Although, but this time there were already signs that communism was failing. Then in my junior year the Berlin Wall was torn down, and my fears subsided, some. I knew that China and others had nuclear weapons, and that they may not be very responsible, but at the same time I knew that using them was beyond stupid, because they would affect the whole globe not just the country of attack.
I do not think that politicians will be able to use the fear of nuclear weapons for much longer. Even those of use that grew up with this fear see it as unlikely outcome to anything that may happen. I think Bush is an idiot for wanting to test new weapons, we have enough to destroy every living thing.

I have worked with and know a couple of people in the 19-20 year age range.

I've actually talked to them about this. They have no concept of the fear that the World would End from nuclear conflagration. On the other hand, their lives (and the lives of their friends) have become far less stable than even ours were. They are surrounded by the imagery of death, loss, and misery. Columbine, drug culture, video games, the internet, it's all a very different culture than the one we 30-plus year olds grew up with. They are more bitter and world-weary than we were at the same age.

On the topic of post-apocalyptic media, did you ever read The Tripods series by John Christopher? I thought it was quite fun. And, of course, there was The Planet of the Apes (both Movies and TV), as well as Logan's Run (again, Movie and TV series). Even Ark 2000 and Thundaar the Barbarian on saturday mornings! All post-apocalyptic to some degree.

As for games, well, sure, Gamma World is excellent, but don't forget Aftermath!, The Morrow Project, and Twilight 2000. T2K is currently being reprinted, and a new D20 version of Gamma World is in the works...

Tiff, I definitely wanted to live through a nuclear holocaust. I've always been scared of dying in any form (still am — it's my biggest fear). But one of my secret fantasies about living through a holocaust was that I could be the New Adam! Just imagine: the father of an entirely new human race! And, of course, in my fantasies, the New Eve was beautiful, witty, intelligent, and exactly my age.

But that's a digression I never meant to take...

Dana said: They are more bitter and world-weary than we were at the same age.

This is a fantastic observation. Do we need some sort of external threat in order to focus our lives? Without it, do we become listless?

And of course I've read John Christopher's books. (There were actually my first choice to link, but I gave up on finding a good page for them, too.) I'm a fan of the Apes films (despite the fact they really, truly suck), too, though the original novel is much, much better. Logan's Run? The less said about that, the better. (Though I do think on it fondly...)

when i was about 8 or 9 years old, my grandfather babysat for me one day and he watched an entire afternoon of "The 700 Club" on TV. i became obsessed with nuclear war at that point, because the whole show was about how the Russkies were about to bomb us and we needed a man like Ronald Reagan to defend ourselves from them. i was convinced nuclear war would befall us at any moment. my parents almost took me to a shrink because it seemed that every drawing i did involved missle silos, mushroom clouds, and utter destruction. the TV movie "The Day After" was also a highlight of those days (which i think came out a few years later). ah, youth.

Do we need some sort of external threat in order to focus our lives? Without it, do we become listless?

I think it has more to do with media.

Everybody, today, is bombarded with huge amounts of information. We all have far more awareness and exposure to the world stage than most people did when we were kids. At the same time, we see how little effect one person has on the whole thing.

We see far more clearly how hateful and bigotted people can be.

We hear a lot more about things which used to be more quiet and localized (ie, pedophilia).

We see people lying to us in ever greater numbers -- every company says it's great, every politician says he has the answer, every religious leader expounds a (mutually exclusive) Truth.

We have a much easier time correlating information about those lies through the web and other informal communications channels.

The more powerful, the greater status, the more influence, recognition, and wealth you have, the more you seem to be crooked, untrustworthy, dishonest, and criminal.

The gap between the rich and the poor is greater today than it has been in a long time. That gap is widening. There's less mobility. The middle class is shrinking away, and there seems little opportunity for achieving the same standard of living their parents have.

We 30-plus somethings have grown up with a slow shift from one state to another. We have more or less adapted to it, using patterns and skills that have slowly evolved as the situation has.

The kids who were born in the early-mid '80s have had this media bombardment since birth, more or less. It's been this way 1/2 or more of their life. It makes them feel depressed (because it is depressing) and disenfranchised (as there doesn't seem to be much they can do about it).

At least, that's my take on it.

I'm curious to know if any of the teachers have observed any of this, or if it's just me...

dana: wow. another morrow project person. didn't know anyone else had ever heard of that before. when my brother and i were young and growing up in germany (nice and tense during 1982-1985... that was not too post-baader meinhof and the ussr/east germans were an omnipresent concern. if you guys felt scared in safe little oregon, how do you think we felt in west central europe?) we somehow came across a photocopy of the morrow project manual. of course we photocopied that photocopy and that was a great time passer. loved that game.

I would build an ark and put two of every animal in it and sail over all the nuclear fallout for 40 million years (the half-life of err uranium?)

I was born in the early 80's. What is this "media" you speak of? You mean the God-box in the living room that shows us images of how we should act?

Seriously though, I recently watched a movie that took place in 1930's Britain. I couldn't get over the scenes where it would show the family sitting quietly in the fire-lit living room. It was too much to comprehend. What do they have to look forward to? Work all day and look forward to sitting quietly looking at fire? I just can't imagine life without this "media" you speak of overpowering our feeble little minds. Life without the Internet, even, is pretty hard to comprehend for me (although I do remember using "non-connected" computers for years.) Remember the "Icons", with the trackballs? Boy, was that pathetic.

I also remeber the fear of nuclear holocaust. Mostly I remember how unfair that a bunch of fucked up adults could cause the world to end before I had a chance to have sex. Oh those wonderful adolescent years.

I was only 9 or 10 years old when the USSR fell, so I don't remember anything about the cold war. But I can tell you, in complete honesty, without any political agenda, that my fears have always been of government control. I often find myself imagining what it would be like to be "silenced" by my own government (or someone else's). To be locked away forever with no trial, no one to hear me scream. All because my beliefs might not coincide with the current path world (and domestic) governments seem to be taking.

I'm not trying to dramatize or push my political views on anyone (which is why I didn't mention them), that is just honestly what I fear, and always have since before I can remember. Terrorism never bothered me much (except on and around 9/11, when I'd feel a chill every time a plane flew overhead). But terrorism probably should be what scares my generation nowadays. Maybe it will when Canada becomes a target.

I'm in the same boat as the rest of the 30-somethings. Intense fear of the world being imminently destroyed by nukes. Come to think of it, I even bet Mike Groff one copper penny that the world would be blown to radioactive bits by the year 2000. Guess I owe him that penny.

Like Tammy, I heard a lot about the Communists and what they did to people, how the rights and freedoms those of us in America enjoyed (the shining beacon of hope to the world that we are) were non-existent in the USSR or China or Cuba. At the same time, though, I began developing a strange cynicism about our government. I learned about Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm. I learned about Nicaragua, Iran-Contra. I couldn't shake the feeling that while I agreed that the rights and freedoms I had as an American were precious and to be vigorously defended, it wasn't necessarily the "threat" from the outside they needed to be defended against.

In that respect, I guess I understand what dowingba is talking about. The Berlin Wall came down on my birthday, but by that time I was already turning my suspicious mind to scrutiny of my own government and its propaganda.