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04 August 2004 — In Defense of the Dribbler (18)

Tammy's getting herself in trouble again in the Oregon weblogging world. The last time this happened, a certain somebody dropped me a line:

I was kinda worried, wondering if you knowingly hosted her and if she was related to you then I saw your response to her latest post which cleared things up.
Yes, I knowingly host Tammy. Yes, she is related to me. No, I do not agree with her socio-political views.

Why then do I continue to host her, if I find much of what she says ignorant and/or offensive?

There are several reasons, actually, among which are these:

  1. Tammy is family. She is my first cousin. We have shared history and shared blood. We are radically different human beings, but I love her, and she loves me.
  2. I do not believe that just because a person has a different voice than mine, that person ought to be silent. I try to put myself in that person's shoes. If I were a lone liberal in a sea of conservatives, would I want to have myself drowned by their flood? No. Many of Tammy's beliefs are repugnant to me, but I believe she has every right to hold these beliefs, and to share them. (Of course, I also believe she needs to reap what she sows, too. When her statements cause controversy, she needs to be able to handle that controversy. I'd love it if she were to actually respond to criticism with reasoned argument, but that's evidently not going to happen, so we just have to accept it.)
  3. Most importantly, I believe that the Weblog, as a form and idea, is a revolutionary form of communication. It's so many things at once — grassroots level news, personal diary, focused information for "taste tribes", etc. — but all of these boil down to personal journalism, the likes of which have never been possible before. Let me say it again: I think weblogs are revolutionary, and I believe everyone ought to consider writing one. They're not for the elite; they're for the masses.

Fellow Oregon weblogger Chuck Currie is cranky with Tammy, and understandably so:

She is the state's Anita Bryant wannabe. Tammy claims to be a Christian homemaker but is quick to violate Scripture by casting stones (if not bullets) at gays and democrats. For Tammy hate is the family value.

He wonders — perhaps rhetorically — whether Tammy is real:

But is she for real? Her daily rants turn her into such the stereotype of, well, the perfect Anita Bryant that some have begun to wonder if she isn't a hoax. I wonder myself. Could she be a liberal in disguise trying to bait progressives into honing their arguments on the issues? Or is she just someone out for a laugh? Maybe the truth is darker than that. Maybe she is for real.

I assure everyone that Tammy is real. In person, she is warm and funny and loud, just as one might expect from reading her weblog. She's also opinionated, and not shy about sharing her opinions.

The extended Roth family has only recently re-established yearly get-togethers. Our first was held about three years ago, in Tammy's home. A group of us were sitting upstairs, chatting about various topics. Tammy turned to me and asked me, "So, J.D., which church are you going to now?"

I knew the weight of the question when she asked it. I also knew that I wasn't prepared for a theological debate; I was filled with a warm familial glow, and had no desire to argue scripture. Still, I would not lie.

"I don't go to church, Tammy," I said. "I'm an atheist."

The room was silent for a moment, and then Tammy did her best to convince me of the error of my ways. I suffered in silence under her verbal assault, and then it passed. I'm now the wayward cousin, blind to the Truth. Generally, we don't discuss religion or politics except when one or the other of us says something just a little too provocative. Mostly we ignore the topic, and that works fine for us.

And that's my advice to those of you out there who find Tammy makes you oh so very tense: just ignore her. Yes, it's frustrating that people with her ideas exist, but to them it's just as frustrating that people with your ideas exist. The best way to —

sigh

I say this, rush to Tammy's defense, and then she writes something like this:

You see, God still has His people scattered about in Babylon. And it's time we quit weeping by the river and pick up our swords and fight. We must reclaim our nation.

Reclaim your nation from whom, Tammy? From yourself? See, I've tried to point this out before: Christians rule this nation. They always have. Something like 99% of this country believes in a god. Most of these believers are Christian. Are you trying to tell me you think there's some sort of cultural apartheid here? That you're being oppressed by the small percentage of non-Christians?

This is ludicrous!

Tammy, you are not oppressed. Christianity is not under attack in this country. (It's also possible that many Christians don't subscribe to your particular brand of dogmatism, that they think your interpretation of the Bible and of Christ's teachings are just as wrong as you think theirs are.) Christianity is the dominant paradigm. Yes, there are aberrations, and these aberrations bother you, but they're the exception and not the rule.

If you want to know what it's like to be oppressed, try being an atheist in a Christian nation. (And oppressed is too strong a word here; I live my life in a Christian world, but I'm not, say, enslaved and forced to build temples. Because of this, I don't feel oppressed the way black slaves felt oppressed.)

Christianity is omnipresent. It's everywhere. It's inescapable. Don't cry to me that you need to reclaim your nation. You've already claimed it, and all your moaning is because a small fraction of people don't want to think like you do. Why is it so important that everyone think just like you? Why is that so frightening?

My lands, that Tammy is so frustrating...

On this day at foldedspace.org

2005Odds and Ends   I'm busy. Here are a few quick thoughts.

2003Nemo, Found   In which I find Nemo (not the fish). In which Kris now has a lap cat.

Comments
On 04 August 2004 (10:49 AM), Desiree said:

I just start to think moreso that maybe, just maybe there is a God, then more of the 'we are greater than the rest' 'they ought to all believe as we do' attitude shows again - making me do a double take and decide to keep my status as Agnostic.

JD, you are very tollerant "Tammy is family. She is my first cousin. We have shared history and shared blood. "

I have family that I have chosen to drop communication with - there is choice in family and non-family as to whether or not you maintain contact.


On 04 August 2004 (11:06 AM), Rachelle said:

Desiree,

I'm getting ready to contact pest control- you are everywhere. Do you have a job? I truely do feel sorry for you. We have a very close family and we don't disown people just because they have different beliefs. I don't agree with everything my mother says but that doesn't mean I'm not going to claim her as my mother. I guess every family has their own idea of what family values are. You shouldn't be so bitter


On 04 August 2004 (12:31 PM), Desiree said:

Rachelle, I am sorry you sense my following trackbacks as an activity requiring 'pest control' --- I guess many in the blog world are pests by your definition then, as we use trackbacks as a means to share in similar discussion.

As well, I see you find me 'bitter' and I have no idea why... I simply stated that one is not required in any way to keep contact with those that they dislike or disagree with --- choice is an option open to all. Have a nice day and do not be concerned as to my employment status - I'm doing just fine.


On 04 August 2004 (12:47 PM), Rachelle said:

Desiree,

Good to know...I'll be able to sleep much better tonight. It just seems like you have a lot of time on your hands to follow EVERY trackback made about my mother and post about her. I guess disfunctionalism is a norm in some families but not ours.


On 04 August 2004 (12:55 PM), Amanda said:

Meow!

JD, you are the most tolerant person I (don't really) know. Being a recovering fundamentalist, Tammy grates on my very last nerve. I'm with Desiree--being family doesn't give you carte blance privileges. But that's really neither here nor there. If you're okay with her, then that's all that really matters.

I feel really weird posting this here, knowing that Tammy reads your blog, but it's *your* blog. So.


On 04 August 2004 (01:15 PM), tammy said:

Just as jd's blog is his so is mine, mine. JD is giving me carte blance priviledges. He just realizes that we live in America and in our country is freedom of speech. And as he stated, weblogs are for the masses. No one is forcing anyone to come read my weblog. If it grates on you Amanda then don't read it. I will not be offended. Again just as I have rights so do you.

To Desiree, I have nothing to say.

And to my daughter Rachelle, I say this; Let Desiree alone. There's very few websites she's even allowed to post on anymore. She has alienated so many people. It's all rather sad really. But just like we all have rights, so does she.


On 04 August 2004 (01:18 PM), Amanda said:

Never fear, Tammy, I most certainly do not read your blog and have zero interest in doing so.


On 04 August 2004 (01:55 PM), Dana said:

Ah, Tammy.

I've quoted this before:

Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.


-- Hermann Goering, Nazi leader at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

To Goering's list of democracy, fascist and communist dictatorships, and parliaments, add religions.

Tammy, and others who agree with her, seem to see Christianity as some homogenous group on the one hand, and an embittered threatened minority on the other.

Neither of those are true, exactly, but they aren't false, either, exactly -- people who agree with Tammy, either completely or even mostly, are probably in the minority. But people who consider themselves Christian are not.

Not everybody venerates the Pope, but a Catholic Christian is saying he's Infallible, and the other Christians are probably saying that's a load of hooey.

It's all well and good to say that being a Christian means Following the Word of God, and the Word of God is X, Y, and Z, but in the real world, there are plenty of people also claiming to be Christian, Following the Word of God, who perhaps believe that the Word of God is V, W, and X -- there may well only be a little overlap.

But look, the real point is this: it's easy to whip up support for 'necessary steps' by reinforcing how you are a threatened underdog. It's a lot harder to get people to agree to give up power or liberty or civil rights when they see no reason to except that you want them to.

A demagogue or fascist gains power over others far more readily if those others are afraid and willing to give him their power in exchange for security than if he has to oppose it without their agreement.

This is just as true with social power and religions as it is with political power and governments.

You can always make a lot of people love one another so long as there are a smaller number outside the group for them to kick


-- Sigmund Freud

We like to belong and be accepted. And nothing breeds belonging like excluding someone else, someone who is 'different' -- different ethnically or culturally, or in sexuality, or nationality, or whatever.

As long as two people agree that whomever they are kicking is definitely wrong, that seems to be more important than whether they agree on policies, moral or social issues, and the like.

American Christians, by and large, agree on who to kick -- Pro-choicers, Pacifists, Liberals, and GLBT -- but that doesn't mean that they agree on what is Right.

When they run out of people like me to kick, they'll start kicking each other. It's inevitable.

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.


--George Orwell

The Ends do not justify the Means. If you think so, you are dangerous to those of us with principles.

Everybody gets a choice in life. If you have decided that someone or something is infallible, you have decided not to excercise that choice -- you have decided that someone else, other than you, is going to be making it for you, and you'll just do what they say. That's a problem in any civilization, democratic or not.

It is the logic of blind obedience, of fascism, of royal priviledge, of Popes. It is inherently opposed to democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law.

Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.


-- Richard Nixon

Many people in fact do believe that the Ends justify the Means.

I don't. I hope most people don't. Nixon seems to have. Certainly GWB believes so -- witness his 'holy crusade' against Terrorists, which -- much like Goering -- sows fear in the population, and allows him great latitude in advancing his social agenda.

As it happens, I agree with JD. I don't believe in God. As a consequence, I believe we live in a world of fallible men, shaped both by our virtues and our flaws.

If someone believes something which is bad for some of us -- which condemns how we live, which restricts what we can do, which is unfair to us -- when what we do has no direct material impact back on that person, that is wrong.

It's one thing for Tammy, and those who agree with her, to say I'm wrong, sinning, and evil. It's another thing for her to construct public policy (passing a law, say, or ammending a constitution) outlawing what I do. Particularly if the 'harm' I am doing to her by living my life as I choose is that she doesn't like it, and fears that something will happen.

Fear breeds bad policy and fascism. Just because you can make me do or not do something doesn't give you the right to do so. Niether, I might add, does your believe. I could believe that the ocean is purple and that a civilization of platypii live on the moon. Anybody could believe anything. Just saying, "Well, my beliefs are the right beliefs" is all well and good. But that's not exactly persuasive to anybody who disagrees with you.

The only way for a heterogenous society to grow and flourish is if it can somehow work out how to disagree on some things, like religion and beliefs, and agree on other things, like plumbing and sanitation, without anybody getting lynched or enslaved or made into second-class citizens.

True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it is not haphazard and superficial. It comes to see that an edifice that produces beggars needs restructuring.


-- Martin Luther King

Lots of people are far more interested in pointing out how tragic it is that we have beggars than they are in not doing what produces them.

There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not outside, not on other people. That comes afterwards, when you have worked on your own corner.


-- Aldous Huxley

The trick here is this -- how do you know when you are done fixing yourself? It's all well and good for Christian Conservatives to tell us all how sinful and bad GLBT people and abortionists and liberals and so-called activist judges are. Are they perfect now? No. It's just a question of agreeing on who needs kicking.

At least two-thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity: idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religous or political ideas.


-- Aldous Huxley

How about less kicking? Less kicking for everybody? I think that sounds like a good plan, personally.

Will we be extremists for hate or will we be extremists for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice--or will we be extremists for the cause of justice?


-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Amen.


On 04 August 2004 (01:57 PM), Denise said:

Ah, Dana! Where have you been? ;)


On 04 August 2004 (01:59 PM), Desiree said:

LOL... so, being banned from 2 weblogs (Tammys and some psycho that she associates with) makes for 'few websites she's even allowed to post on anymore'... ok, if that is how you want to define it Tammy! I haven't been much in the blogworld of late as I've been living life away from the computer - banning is not my problem with blogs, but lack of time as I'm interacting more and more with friends and family in the flesh. Appologies to any of my blog friends that may come by, I do find so many interesting to follow and interact with, but - I'm more or less on blog hiatus --- infrequent travels now on blogs. This is an exception as I know how the gang that come by here operate and I fully expected to see comments here from them that hang at the computer all day.


On 04 August 2004 (02:04 PM), J.D. said:
Ah, Dana! Where have you been?

Amen.

I'll admit: Dana adds a ton to this particular weblog, even if she does have a certain monofocus. :)


On 04 August 2004 (02:26 PM), Rachelle said:

Desiree,
Did someone touch a soft spot with you?


On 04 August 2004 (05:07 PM), dowingba said:

I'm with J.D. and Tammy on this one. Political differences aren't the be-all end-all of society. Every member of my family has pretty much a polar opposite set of values to my own -- does that mean I should disown them? No, it just means we will probably vote for different people every few years. Big friggin' deal. There's more to life than politics, people.

And I'm not a psycho, Desiree, and I'll warn you about spreading libel about people in the future, as it is against the law (yes, even in Alberta). I have already looked at the legal avenues I can take if this continues and I am prepared to use the full privelege of the courts at my disposal if ever you try to pass off your filthy slander in my name or fling viscious and provably-false accusations at me again. That is all. I hope never to speak to you again.


On 05 August 2004 (07:17 AM), Desiree said:

Ohhhh... have an owie dowingba? I never mentioned your name when I mentioned 'psycho'... but, if the name fits...


On 05 August 2004 (12:45 PM), Joel said:

I'm not sure about Alberta, but I think in America that irony and hyperbole are protected speech, which covers most common insults. Frinstance, I could say that someone is a goat-lover, in fact I'll go ahead and demonstrate on JD, if you'll come over here. Thank you.
JD, you're a goat-lover!
There, see, I got away scott-free, 'cause I didn't mean it literally. Thanks for the help, there JD.


On 05 August 2004 (01:08 PM), dowingba said:

Joel, you don't know the full story and I'm not going to relate it here. Nor am I going to acknowledge the offending party personally again unless it's in a courtroom setting.


On 06 August 2004 (09:40 AM), Desiree said:

Thanks Joel for the demonstration and the explanation. There is no 'full story' dowingba just seems to like to sound self-important. Now, dowingba, go back to the restaurant and wash some more dishes.


On 06 August 2004 (09:46 AM), Desiree said:

oops... pardon the error, I was just over to 'd's site and see he is 'merely a cook' (his own words), not a dishwasher. So.. in fixing that error I guess it would be more appropriate to say go on and flip some more burgers d. (and no worries, a career will come eventually, I too spent time in my youth working in a fast-food restaurant, it was quite enjoyable at the time!)


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